How would you define yourself in one sentence?
I still consider myself a scientist, but I wear different hats: of an entrepreneur, science communicator and storyteller. Overall, I guess I am a mad scientist storyteller.
How did your relationship with food start?
My relationship with food stems from childhood and my parents being very relaxed about my sister and I getting in the kitchen and making things. My sister had a kids cookbook that had a recipe for a cheese omelette that we would make together on Saturday mornings. My mum, my sister and I would also make and sell chocolate-covered nuts at the church my parents went to: I guess that’s the start of the combination of food and entrepreneurship! But a key thread in my life is that I have always been interested in lots of quite different things.
So, going from doing a PhD in Oxford—doing quite esoteric science, studying atoms in steels!—to having the idea of creating a cocoa-free chocolate feels quite natural to me. I am good at looking at different things in the world and seeing similarities, connections and patterns. That’s what connects everything I have done until now—science, food, art, music. One day I read about the concept of “super connectors”, which is people that take different ideas and connect them. I was like “aha! that’s me!”. I suppose I’ve done that within various fields and my work with WNWN is merely an extension of that.
What made you change your career path from being a full-on scientist to a cook, fermenter and entrepreneur?
As I got to the end of my PhD, I became discouraged by the idea of becoming an academic. I realized I wanted to do one of 4 things: be a comedian, make films, play music or work in food. Pretty indecisive! When I finished my PhD, I started doing all of these things. I was writing screenplays for comedies (or trying to!), making short films with friends, which were actually quite bad [*said laughing*] and it ended up that my progress in music and food were better. So I kept going with those. I even ended up playing keyboards for about 4 years in a band named “Ten Fe”—touring America and Europe, playing really big festivals—before eventually I realized I wanted to focus all my energies on food.
What are the connections between your passions?
What connects all of my passions is humans. When you play music and people actually come see you play, there is this “moment“ in the room. Everyone is there and beyond it being your responsibility to make sure they are entertained and happy there is this opportunity to do something with that moment. You and your fellow players are in control of how that moment develops, of the energy it contains, of how people feel or go away feeling. It can bring people together, or push them apart if you do it badly. The same thing can happen with food. Whether it’s fine dining restaurants, home cooking, street food or whatever. There is that same moment that as the cook or server you can influence people’s mood, bring people together, connect people. That’s my favorite thing about food: connecting people and spaces where ideas and these little moments are shared. The same is true of music and really good cinema, they both present a platform, a space, where those moments, which can be difficult to design or predict, can be shaped and captured on the fly.
Tell me about a fermented product that represents you
If there is something I am particularly proud about is my “buttermilk garum” which led to the broader “dairy garums”. I “invented” this during my time at Cub in London and later shared it with the Silo team, renowned as the world’s first zero-waste restaurant. That family of products have now been further developed by the Silo team and have become a cornerstone of the flavor profile of various dishes at Silo. I say “invented” because I know other people around the world have independently happened upon similar recipes and concepts. When it’s “young” it has a golden color, it is really umami, with caramel and roasted nuts notes. As it matures, it undergoes a fascinating transformation, acquiring hints of aged blue cheese and it gets less versatile. It is very complex, but it blows people’s minds! I’ve had Michelin-starred chefs trying to take sample bottles off me so they could use it!
What is the story behind WNWN chocolate?
About six years ago I was in my parents’ kitchen boiling potatoes. I lent over this pan and suddenly I realized the steam smelled of hot chocolate. It was a Eureka moment for me. Two thoughts came into my head: why does chocolate taste like chocolate and could you make something that tastes like chocolate from potatoes? We don’t use potatoes but that was the genesis of the company.
One day I received a message on Instagram from my current business partner Ahrum saying “Hey, you don’t know me, but I want to quit my job and start a food tech company. Most importantly, I want to work with food waste”. I remember thinking “you definitely came to the right place”. At that time I was also looking to start a food tech company and had been sat on various concepts and recipes that I wanted to commercialise.
At first, we wanted to commercialize garum, but then when I shared my chocolate idea with Ahrum we both got much more excited. Given that chocolate is a $180 billion global market further fueled our belief in the immense potential for reinventing and disrupting this industry that, if you start reading up, has lots of very serious ethical and environmental issues such as slave labour and deforestation.
What motivated you to create this product?
Underneath the chocolate industry there are major inequalities. Two thirds of cocoa is grown in just two countries in West Africa: Ivory Coast and Ghana. It’s estimated that 1.5 million child laborers are involved in producing cocoa and even regular cocoa farmers get paid typically less than 2$ a day. That’s coupled with widespread deforestation: there’s been a loss of almost 80% of the Ivory Coast’s rainforested areas since the 1990s. So chocolate has an oversized carbon footprint. It causes biodiversity loss. And it’s going up in price due to disease and shortages.
How do you create cocoa free chocolate?
The process of creating chocolate involves a series of steps; from growing the beans to fermenting, roasting, and blending them with sugar and fats. We follow the same philosophy by getting the flavor out of whole ingredients.
We use carob and barley which are abundant and sustainable ingredients. By playing with them—in the same way chocolate makers do with cocoa beans—we can draw out similar flavors to those found in chocolate. The flavor and the ability to melt in the mouth are the two key puzzles to solve. Through many many tests—I think we’re close to one thousand recipe tests now!—and tastings we’ve improved the product to the extent that many people wouldn’t realise our product isn’t chocolate. Typically, our product is compared to a chocolate that has notes of dates, espresso, hazelnut and butterscotch.
What do you think were the most difficult things you had to work on while setting up this startup?
Ahrum and myself are first-time entrepreneurs and at the beginning we found ourselves responsible for almost every aspect of the business. But between the two of us we had plenty of experiences that helped us develop this business rapidly. For instance, my work co-founding a magazine (MOLD magazine) provided me with insights into marketing strategies and effective communication. As entrepreneurs, we are aware of our limitations and have recognized the need to bring in specialized talent. Finding the right people has proven to be a challenging task. You want to make sure that they have the expertise but most importantly that they also fit the culture. But we’ve managed to do that and we have the most amazing team who are really responsible for making the magic happen!
Another key thing is allocating resources efficiently and determining when to invest in different areas is crucial. You want to make sure you do things at the right time. So hiring people just before you really really need their skillset so they have time to “bed in” to the company, but not too much before such that they don’t have any work to do!
What advice would you give to a young person who wants to get investments for their startup?
Fundraising is all about networking. That is the key of successful start-ups. And there’s always money. There are lots of people around the world seeking to support young visionaries with brilliant ideas. The key task is to meet them!
Building credibility is often even more crucial than the idea itself. Credibility sets the foundation, while the idea acts as the driving force for potential success. The key lies in getting out there and connecting with as many people as possible.
Get good at saying who you are, what your idea is and why it could change the world in 30 seconds to three minutes. If you do, you’ll soon find yourself in a room telling that story to the right people, the people with the money that can accelerate your growth.
When seeking investments, it is crucial to sell the vision rather than solely focusing on what you’ve done to date, although that’s of course important. Investors are interested in the potential impact and the future possibilities your idea holds. Honesty and commitment remain essential. Investors want to see that you live and breathe this idea. They want to see leadership qualities. They want to know that whatever challenges you face, you have the right leadership within the team to tackle them.
Where do you see WNWN chocolate in the future?
From a philosophical point of view, I would love to make our versions of all sorts of chocolates from mass-market ones to the most fancy, expensive, luxury ones.
But for us, the key is those mass-market products. That’s where the issues of slave labour and deforestation are. Therefore, to have an ethical impact and address the issues related to the chocolate market, we know we have to create solutions that will be targeted towards that mass market. That’s where we see WNWN products ultimately being, predominantly.
We believe we can work at that sort of scale without sacrificing sustainability. Your margins per product might be smaller but, for us, creating something that is genuinely sustainable, both for the humans working all along the supply chain and the environment, is fundamental.